An honest evaluation of Filipino/Philippine culture. Options

[benign0]

Want an honest evaluation of Filipino/Philippine culture? Visit the following site:
http://www.geocities.com/benign0/

and lets discuss here!

[oniKai]

Galing!

Binatukan yata ako ng...katotohanan?

[mac_bolan00]

hey benignut! expanding our horizons, i see. that's a good new year's move. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
hey benignut! expanding our horizons, i see. that's a good new year's move. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's right. You should check out my What's New section for a complete list of forums I am participating in.

Nice to see you are true to your form even while back up "on the hill". Do the mods here tolerate the kind of behaviour you engage in back in PEx?

Get Real Philippines!!

[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: benign0 ]

[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: benign0 ]

[mac_bolan00]

for some reason, people here in A.net are better behaved than in PEX or peyups.com --it's probably the layout and coloring. at peyups.com, bans are doled out as often as porrige.

one thing though, the culture here in atenista might not be conducive to a 31-page thread. just my observation (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dearth]

Yes, we have the attention spans concurrent with noblesse oblige.


Biro lang. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
for some reason, people here in A.net are better behaved than in PEX or peyups.com --it's probably the layout and coloring. at peyups.com, bans are doled out as often as porrige.

one thing though, the culture here in atenista might not be conducive to a 31-page thread. just my observation (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'll just have to come around to bump this thread up once in a while then. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Hmm. So Peyups has a new forum eh? Maybe I'll drop in for a visit.

Get Real Philippines!!

[fray torquemada]

This should gain more exposure. This neo-conservative, realist slant on things is quite refreshing. This site stands for personal responsibility and not for the usual left-wing spin of blaming the west and the rich for the misery of pinoys. Common sense and a positive realist attitude must take root to rescue the fast-shrinking archipelago.

[mac_bolan00]

not the west and the rich per se but rather their misdeeds, that tend to affect the rest of the country negatively. there's plenty of common sense and realism to be found here. and you have no call to worry about land area. the archipelago is definitely not shrinking.

GET REEL PHILIPPINES!!!!

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
not the west and the rich per se but rather their misdeeds, that tend to affect the rest of the country negatively. there's plenty of common sense and realism to be found here. and you have no call to worry about land area. the archipelago is definitely not shrinking.

GET REEL PHILIPPINES!!!!

Care to cite a few examples of this common sense that you say exist within the archipelago?

Get Real Philippines!!

[mac_bolan00]

look at me. i don't let other people's stupidities get to me. i'm flourishing in rotten philippines and loving every moment of it.

oh but i do have frustrations. i'm frustrated that the fertility rate per nubile female is still 3.0X. i want to bring this down to less than 1.8X and maybe maintain the country's population to a manageable 20 million. i want to eradicate all types of mysticism (read: religion). i want to eradicate all these crazy regionalists and nationalists. i want to stamp out racism.

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
look at me. i don't let other people's stupidities get to me. i'm flourishing in rotten philippines and loving every moment of it.

oh but i do have frustrations. i'm frustrated that the fertility rate per nubile female is still 3.0X. i want to bring this down to less than 1.8X and maybe maintain the country's population to a manageable 20 million. i want to eradicate all types of mysticism (read: religion). i want to eradicate all these crazy regionalists and nationalists. i want to stamp out racism.

But that's the whole problem isn't it. We're so numb to said "stupidities" that we just live with them and consider them to be acceptable facts of life instead of ranting about them (at the very least).

Get Real Philippines!!

[mac_bolan00]

wrong. there should be more people like me and less like you. but don't despair. you're still young. you should be able to squeeze yourself into the 20 million cutoff before it's too late.

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
wrong. there should be more people like me and less like you. but don't despair. you're still young. you should be able to squeeze yourself into the 20 million cutoff before it's too late.

In reality there are very few like myself. There are more people who grandstand about "what they do for the country" and very few who pause to gain a clear understanding of the problem itself. Result -- one big implementation gone wrong (ask any veteran of disastrous ERP implementation projects), and the Philippines is one such failed project.

Analyse what you just said a while back (see below to refresh your memory):

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
look at me. i don't let other people's stupidities get to me. i'm flourishing in rotten philippines and loving every moment of it.

oh but i do have frustrations. i'm frustrated that the fertility rate per nubile female is still 3.0X. i want to bring this down to less than 1.8X and maybe maintain the country's population to a manageable 20 million. i want to eradicate all types of mysticism (read: religion). i want to eradicate all these crazy regionalists and nationalists. i want to stamp out racism.

You are "flourishing in rotten philippines". You forget that you are not representative of the ordinary Filipino who subsists on $700 a year. And you claim you are "loving every moment of it". Of course you do. Yours is probably a lifestyle made possible by cheap labour. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't confine measurement of the nation's progress by citing how increasingly comfortable life as a member of the Philippine elite is becoming.

You also set down a set of wants -- all macro in nature yet you advocate individual action; which is fine -- if we are talking about personal issues here (which are mostly addressed simply in the conduct of our personal day-to-day lives). We are not talking about personal issues though. We are talking about cultural issues on a national scale -- for discussion's sake (this is a discussion forum, right?).

So the fact remains: I do not disagree that there are in fact more people like you. So why is it that the nation continues to fail?

Get Real Philippines!!

[mac_bolan00]

the trouble with you is you insist on living in the glorious age of empire. i'm not so worried about the philippines as i am for myself and the air i breathe. haven't you heard? there are no more economic cul-de-sacs anywhere. we're part of the global economy. that's bad news for people who still expect anything out of the word 'philippines'. and while THIS part of the world economy could still experience a reversal from its current trend, it won't matter.

you are correct in saying my income classification separates me from background filipino levels. however, i am adopting a universal strategy that can can also be adopted by even the poorest wage-earner. so if people will just mind their own businesses, and not step on others, you will see that your get real platform has no legs on which to propagate. so GET REAL, BENIGNO!

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
the trouble with you is you insist on living in the glorious age of empire. i'm not so worried about the philippines as i am for myself and the air i breathe. haven't you heard? there are no more economic cul-de-sacs anywhere. we're part of the global economy. that's bad news for people who still expect anything out of the word 'philippines'. and while THIS part of the world economy could still experience a reversal from its current trend, it won't matter.

This part I agree with you. We are increasingly living in a world where human resources (those who could) migrate from low ROI to high ROI environments (read: environments where productivity is more justly rewarded). The "Philippines" is nothing more than one of such altenative environments for you and me to choose from to make our home.

That's fine for those who have the means, resources, and skills to participate in this virtual global "National Loyalty Exchange" that is starting to develop. But you forget that there are millions of Filipinos who have no choice but to live in this failed state.

Nationhood has proven to be an elusive concept to Filipinos in particular, us being more of a nation by colonial edict (read: a bunch of tribes lumped together into a political unit and named after a king who happened to be sitting on the Spanish throne at the time) than a people brought together by shared values or philosophies. Considering this, we are lucky we hadn't descended into chaos the way Rwanda, Yugoslavia, and Indonesia and other multi-cultural/ethnic societies did after their colonial masters pulled out or after their respective dictators were deposed.

You are right. The term "Philippines" only means something today on paper for you and me. But it means something to those millions who have no choice but to be subject to the implementation of this writ.

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
you are correct in saying my income classification separates me from background filipino levels. however, i am adopting a universal strategy that can can also be adopted by even the poorest wage-earner. so if people will just mind their own businesses, and not step on others, you will see that your get real platform has no legs on which to propagate. so GET REAL, BENIGNO!

Hmm - a "universal strategy" whose main advocate calls on everyone to "mind their own businesses". Interesting.

I do recall that you indeed have or are a part of some clandestine movement that you are reluctant to describe. I'm tempted to ask (again) what it is you purport to be your "universal strategy" but I think you've eluded this question of mine long enough to keep me the wiser.

Suit yourself then.

One wonders though why such a supposed movement that supposedly could only be of benefit to the general public needs to be kept under wraps.

Like so many other entities in Philippine society, it is difficult to deal with people who are, shall we say, less-than-transparent about their views.

[b"]Get Real Philippines!![/b]

[mac_bolan00]

let's just say i wear two hats these days: a communist strategist and a student of objectivism. while they differ greatly in their general ideas and methods, both have more in common than many people care to admit.

just this: anyone who strategizes on a national level but excludes externalities is surely a crackpot. and while benigno has proven that less deserving people can already partake of the global market pie, those bound to the philippine islands (like myslef) need not despair. there are jobs for the goods ones. the bad ones should not expect anything good coming their way. this is basically your essay, bud, that GOOD THINGS SHOULD COME TO EVERYONE. now that's as ridiculous as one can get.

[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: mac_bolan00 ]

[fray torquemada]

As a Filipino who already lost his Philippine citizenship, I'm not truly in a position to be mercilessly critical of the Philippine culture. Besides, once pinoy--always pinoy. There's no denying that. James Fallows wrote in the Atlantic Quarterly in the 80s that what we have is a "Damaged Culture." It was quite a painful article. He received a gratuitous amount of condemnation from pinoys. I, for one, reacted negatively to that piece. But it's so funny how some of his detractors have come around and now actually applaud his piece. In that piece, there was a significant attribution to "colonial mentality" as to why our culture is damaged. There's perhaps strands of truth to that assertion. We are indeed products of our colonial past -- and so were the United States, Canada, Australia, Singapore, the Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong, New Zealand, Brunei. The usual left-wing intellectual mantra of the damaged culture -- the west is to blame. The Americans? Brits? Spaniards? Perhaps -- a bit. But,ultimately sovereign nations like the Philippines will have to take responsibility of their failures. If some former colonies were able to make good of their colonial past, then there are no excuses. Yet my intellectual friends will point to the FACT that most of the former colonies of the west are not faring well i.e., African nations. Good point. But consider this -- asylees from these countries who got to the west, tend to be prosperous and good citizens of host western nations. Just like pinoys in the US and Canada -- accused to be hopelessly trapped by colonial mentality -- are performing above average in diff. measurements of success in these countries. It seems to me that sometimes pinoys will have to be uprooted from his milieu of an endemically toxic culture, to grow, flourish and, prove his worth --to shine!
As to the criticism on religion as a root of this damaged culture-- it's hogwash. If there's one thing preserving Filipino families in the west -- it's the pinoy's fervent Catholicism (and Protestantism) and not their apparent opulence, material contentment, or professional success.
So what's the problem? And what's the fix? Hard to answer. But I'll lend my humble opinion--rule of law. There seems to be a propensity for pinoys to skip it incessantly and with impunity. And all the other nations failing -- that seems to be the case as well.
As a positive note, compared to other nations, Philippines is still quite young. The United States will have to go though the turbulence of the Revolutionary War, Slavery, the war of the states, etc...to achieve its current state. It's not perfect but it's trying to be all things that it can w/c is quite a feat for a country that is only 336 yrs old. Common thread -- rule of law. It's not late for my beloved P.I.

[benign0]

Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
let's just say i wear two hats these days: a communist strategist and a student of objectivism. while they differ greatly in their general ideas and methods, both have more in common than many people care to admit.

just this: anyone who strategizes on a national level but excludes externalities is surely a crackpot. and while benigno has proven that less deserving people can already partake of the global market pie, those bound to the philippine islands (like myslef) need not despair. there are jobs for the goods ones. the bad ones should not expect anything good coming their way. this is basically your essay, bud, that GOOD THINGS SHOULD COME TO EVERYONE. now that's as ridiculous as one can get.

[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: mac_bolan00 ]

First of all, I'd like you to cite one instance where I've advocated simply doling out wealth to the underserving. That is the entire antithesis of what Get Real stands for. We are advocating that Filipinos acquire the proper values and ethics so that they can earn their keep in a sustainable manner.

Let me get this straight. Communists advocate distributing wealth equally to all regardless of individual product while objectivists advocate giving personal ability its due respect and reward commensurate to the resulting product made possible by said ability. The advocates of objectivism also extol the supremacy of the capitalist system and the undisputed achievement of European civilisation in the realms of wealth creation and upliftment of standards of living.

It seems it is you who is trying to have his cake and eat it too.

I can't claim to be a student of objectivism as I had read only one of Ayn Rand's books. But from what I've read, I am inclined to subscribe to most of its tenets. Have you seen this page of mine? It pretty much summarises what I think of objectivism.

I noticed too that you are starting your own website. Good start. Maybe it'll make you a bit more transparent and less ambiguous.

Get Real Philippines!!

[benign0]

Originally posted by fray torquemada:
As a positive note, compared to other nations, Philippines is still quite young. The United States will have to go though the turbulence of the Revolutionary War, Slavery, the war of the states, etc...to achieve its current state. It's not perfect but it's trying to be all things that it can w/c is quite a feat for a country that is only 336 yrs old. Common thread -- rule of law. It's not late for my beloved P.I.

The reason most of the advanced countries you cite took 300 years to achieve propsperity is because they had to develop the right approaches and philosophies on their own and as they went.

Singapore, Malaysia, Korea, and Taiwan have proven that second-generation advanced countries need not re-invent the wheel. They merely adopted virtues that made the first-generation advanced countries successful. In effect, humanity already has a vast amount of stock knowledge to for us to learn from. We need not repeat the mistakes alread committed by older countries. All we have to do is appreciate the disciplines required to implement these in our own backyard successfully.

In fact we do so to some extent -- our form of government (democracy -- which took centuries for Western Civilisation to develop) was implemented within the last 100 years in the Philippines. However we practice it without an appreciation of the discipline and responsibility that democracy entails.

Get Real Philippines!!