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> An honest evaluation of Filipino/Philippine culture.
post Dec 31 2002, 03:42 PM
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Want an honest evaluation of Filipino/Philippine culture? Visit the following site:

and lets discuss here!
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post Mar 19 2003, 02:30 PM
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Group: Members
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Originally posted by raggster:
no matter. as it stands, his website contains quite a few contradicting ideas and articles. other articles scream of poorly done research.

besides, everyone has hope, mac. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Amen to that.
Originally posted by raggster:
benign0, it doesn't help your case to refer to "logic and reason" as the final criterion for credibility. in the real world, what is credible is what works.

And is there anything about the Philippines that "works"?

Using your definition of "credibility", I could therefore go further to assert that anything that comes out of the mouth of a Filipino is not credible, don't you think?

Originally posted by raggster:
the reason why i pointed out those three initial problems is that those problems are indicative of a lack of any real working capacity of your framework. and the way you replied, all you did was cleverly divert the burden of proof from you to me (which doesn't work, since it is clearly your burden to show us that your idea works), and to ingeniusly color the discussion with a "whoever is not with me is against progress" sentiment (which, again, doesn't work, since such a statement presumes that your idea actually works, which no one, not even you, can say for sure).

That's because my framework is still a proposal. Therefore, there is no empirical way of proving it will work. Therefore, it can only be evaluated on its logical merit.

Your above paragraph does not address this challenge to evaluate its logical merit. You merely argue about the nature of the manner of our discussion and not the topic at hand.

Originally posted by raggster:
even those articles you boast of about Self-Reliance and Trust are nothing more than an expounding of ideas that are a) nowhere near new, and (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) still lacking in terms of structured action plans on a societal level.

As I said, it is merely the second layer of a still undetermined number of layers to which we shall drill down in the coming months or years (depending on, in the words of Mr. mac_bolan00, the incoming traffic of "inputs" from your types I could "feed on" as well).

I'm in no hurry, you know.

Originally posted by raggster:
in reality, what you are doing now is nothing more than cheap advocacy. advocacy, because you never clearly show how the ideas can be actualized, and cheap, because insofar as credibility goes, your appeal to "logic and reason" isn't worth a whole lot.

More ad hominems I see.

Where do you feel this line of query will lead you?

Originally posted by raggster:
i had a look at your Framework article. i can't say that i'm impressed. (in fact, i'm not.) no matter who detailed your "plan" is, you assume that it will "eventually yield a suite of initiatives, composed of projects, and, in turn, composed of action steps encompassing."

the question is HOW.

Same question as the previous, different wording.

Originally posted by raggster:
even if i was impressed by what you said, this would still be the question lingering in my mind. how do we translate this framework from fantasy to reality?

Yet another re-worded form of a question I already answered.

Originally posted by raggster:
again, this gap is never addressed, and is instead treated in the article, and indeed in the entire website, as an eventuality, rather than an active undertaking.


You seek to put the horse behind the cart.

You seek to take "active undertaking[s]" before thinking a proper context to these "actions" through.

You just described in a nutshell the entire history of the Philippines.

How many of todays technologies, political systems, and paradigms do you think started out as vague and ambiguous frameworks from armchair philosophers like me?

Originally posted by raggster:
telling me that "it's still in development" is not an excuse, especially since you've been at it for two years (if i take mac's word for it). surely by now you must have been able to research enough data tp put together some sort of prototype development plan for at least a small socio-political unit, like the barangay.

Considering that I am doing this single-handedly (well, with the help of a few contributors and friends) and have to respond to quaint ad hominems (instead of input pertaining to the issues themselves)from people like you, I reckon it'll take me another 2 to 3 years to get to the actual implementation part of the framework.

I'm in no hurry. I already live in "some place wonderful".

I think the burden of urgency rests on those who choose to live in our not-too-wonderful motherland. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Originally posted by raggster:

tell you what. here's a challenge for you. take your framework and ideas, and see if you can create a draft action plan for the barangay political unit. take your time, no pressure. but at least show us that your "solution" CAN actually be used in real life, and isn't just rhetoric of a would-be megalomaniac.

Why don't you do that if you are really serious about testing my ideas.

I've already got my strategic vision for my site laid out for the next several years and I intend to stick to it.

The burden of urgent interpretation and -- possibly -- implementation rests on you islanders who are impacted by the dysfunction of the motherland the most. (IMG:http://atenista.net/forums/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

You're talking about making excuses? The success of a handful of nations is no big secret. There are enough books that describe the blueprints behind the success of these nations. The Philippines and all Third World nations have access to these "blueprints", specially today with the Internet where citizens of even the most repressive regimes can access this knowledgebase of details that describe the secrets to the success of the First World.

Do you really think there is an excuse to failure given this wide availability of knowledge to succeed?

Visit Get Real Philippines!! for more views like this!

[ March 19, 2003: Message edited by: benign0 ]
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Posts in this topic
benign0   An honest evaluation of Filipino/Philippine culture.   Dec 31 2002, 03:42 PM
jmal   Galing! Binatukan yata ako ng...katotohanan?   Dec 31 2002, 09:38 PM
mac_bolan00   hey benignut! expanding our horizons, i see. that'...   Jan 2 2003, 09:05 PM
benign0   That's right. You should check out my What's New ...   Jan 3 2003, 01:01 AM
mac_bolan00   for some reason, people here in A.net are better b...   Jan 3 2003, 01:16 AM
Dearth   Yes, we have the attention spans concurrent with n...   Jan 3 2003, 03:14 AM
benign0   I'll just have to come around to bump this thread...   Jan 3 2003, 06:48 PM
jjlorenz   This should gain more exposure. This neo-conservat...   Jan 3 2003, 09:42 PM
mac_bolan00   not the west and the rich per se but rather their ...   Jan 3 2003, 10:01 PM
benign0   Care to cite a few examples of this common sense ...   Jan 3 2003, 11:56 PM
mac_bolan00   look at me. i don't let other people's stupidities...   Jan 4 2003, 02:30 AM
benign0   But that's the whole problem isn't it. We're so n...   Jan 4 2003, 04:24 PM
mac_bolan00   wrong. there should be more people like me and les...   Jan 6 2003, 04:14 PM
benign0   In reality there are very few like myself. There ...   Jan 6 2003, 05:32 PM
mac_bolan00   the trouble with you is you insist on living in th...   Jan 6 2003, 06:31 PM
benign0   This part I agree with you. We are increasingly l...   Jan 6 2003, 07:05 PM
mac_bolan00   let's just say i wear two hats these days: a commu...   Jan 6 2003, 07:16 PM
jjlorenz   As a Filipino who already lost his Philippine citi...   Jan 6 2003, 07:40 PM
benign0   First of all, I'd like you to cite one instance w...   Jan 6 2003, 07:45 PM
benign0   The reason most of the advanced countries you cit...   Jan 6 2003, 08:03 PM
mac_bolan00   you'll do well to stay away from anything relate...   Jan 7 2003, 01:54 AM
benign0   Why is that? This sentence is one big motherh...   Jan 7 2003, 03:02 AM
mac_bolan00   randian objectivism seems to insist on a strong go...   Jan 7 2003, 03:57 AM
benign0   In other words you're an anarchist, right? But h...   Jan 7 2003, 02:19 PM
mac_bolan00   i had to let you post a couple of times to underst...   Jan 7 2003, 04:28 PM
mac_bolan00   sunuvasock!!! the site you mentioned was started b...   Jan 7 2003, 04:37 PM
benign0   Why would he use your handle as a goecities accou...   Jan 7 2003, 04:48 PM
benign0   I know you've already confirmed its existence in ...   Jan 7 2003, 05:14 PM
mac_bolan00   first, mr. get reel, it's closer to your nature ...   Jan 7 2003, 05:40 PM
benign0   Now now. No need to get hostile here. I'm just pr...   Jan 7 2003, 06:07 PM
mac_bolan00   you're the one who started this mac_bolan00 websit...   Jan 7 2003, 06:21 PM
benign0   Very well. Shall we consider this topic closed? I...   Jan 7 2003, 06:41 PM
Leia Castaneda-Anastacio   I was intrigued by mac_bolan00's statement, which ...   Jan 7 2003, 08:12 PM
benign0   Hey Mac-dude! Are you going to reply to this sinc...   Jan 7 2003, 08:22 PM
mac_bolan00   i said i study objectivism at the same time i'm cu...   Jan 7 2003, 08:31 PM
benign0   Hope you don't mind if I butt in: But doesn't t...   Jan 7 2003, 09:48 PM
Leia Castaneda-Anastacio   Do workers in a communist society really keep the ...   Jan 8 2003, 06:27 AM
mac_bolan00   when you're planning, you don't have to stick to...   Jan 8 2003, 05:17 PM
Leia Castaneda-Anastacio   How odd that macbolan00 chosen to zero in on an is...   Jan 9 2003, 03:10 AM
mac_bolan00   so it is then. you may have found my last post odd...   Jan 9 2003, 05:00 AM
Leia Castaneda-Anastacio   Thank you, mac_bolan00, that was very helpful. I t...   Jan 9 2003, 09:45 AM
benign0   In plainspeak, you are therefore undertaking to d...   Jan 9 2003, 03:03 PM
benign0   WAIT NO MORE! :bounce: Teddy Benigno, our new na...   Jan 10 2003, 03:50 PM
benign0   Just dropping by to bump up this thread. ;) Hey ...   Jan 20 2003, 10:20 PM
mac_bolan00   what's there to write about, benignut? our last ex...   Jan 21 2003, 01:09 AM
benign0   Woo hoo! Look who's ready to rock-n-roll again! ...   Jan 21 2003, 03:39 PM
mac_bolan00   thought so myself. i'll bet you'll be bumping this...   Jan 21 2003, 05:33 PM
benign0   Another one of your famous one-liners? Seems lik...   Jan 21 2003, 05:47 PM
benign0   Things are happening! Our education system has be...   Jan 31 2003, 05:06 PM
raggster   /me walks into the thread, looks around, and shake...   Jan 31 2003, 09:28 PM
aoi   Highly interesting and thought provoking messages ...   Feb 1 2003, 03:41 AM
benign0   Thanks for your interest and, yes, we need to dis...   Feb 2 2003, 12:11 AM
mac_bolan00   for once i agree with you. kill this entire genera...   Feb 3 2003, 05:20 PM
benign0   You do your thing and I'll do my thing. I think ...   Feb 6 2003, 04:23 PM
raggster   oooohhh, he called mac a communist! this thread ju...   Feb 7 2003, 02:20 AM
cami   My brother sent me this through email. It's rather...   Feb 8 2003, 12:42 AM
benign0   Thanks for sharing this classic piece of literatu...   Feb 9 2003, 08:03 PM
cami   It's MS. Thornclaw, thankyouverymuch. :D   Feb 9 2003, 11:21 PM
benign0   Ooops. It's funny but I was just through a simi...   Feb 10 2003, 02:49 PM
mac_bolan00   an old one... at least folks in the philippines...   Feb 10 2003, 09:00 PM
benign0   But then more harm is done casting stupid votes ...   Feb 10 2003, 10:10 PM
blukatips   Here's a lighter side and EVIDENCE of Filipino c...   Feb 13 2003, 09:59 PM
benign0   The achievements of a minority few does not absol...   Feb 14 2003, 03:16 PM
mac_bolan00   anong klaseng ka-engengan naman ngayon yan? the me...   Feb 14 2003, 06:39 PM
benign0   On the contrary I think I am being perfectly cons...   Feb 14 2003, 06:57 PM
blukatips   Is there a distinct FILIPINO-style democracy sens...   Feb 17 2003, 05:21 PM
benign0   Aren't we experiencing that "distinct FILIPINO-st...   Feb 18 2003, 02:19 PM
aoi   Hello guys. I got this article from Inquirer. Th...   Mar 11 2003, 02:23 PM
raggster   okay, i think i've seen enough. everyone knows we...   Mar 11 2003, 04:15 PM
victory_fils   Well said, raggster. Sagot ng iba: Others ca...   Mar 11 2003, 04:27 PM
mac_bolan00   oh don't mind me. i'm busy forming another (short-...   Mar 11 2003, 09:45 PM
benign0   What do you expect people to do? Serve soup to b...   Mar 12 2003, 02:15 PM
benign0   A N N O U N C E M E N T ! ! Get a load of the lat...   Mar 12 2003, 03:33 PM
raggster   that's rich. i tell you to get off your electronic...   Mar 12 2003, 05:03 PM
benign0   This is a discussion forum last I heard. What els...   Mar 12 2003, 10:36 PM
mac_bolan00   attaboy, benignut! teach raggster the finer points...   Mar 13 2003, 12:38 AM
benign0   What's the matter? Too embarassed to come back t...   Mar 13 2003, 02:05 AM
raggster   if you actually do something worthwhile, then it's...   Mar 13 2003, 07:14 PM
benign0   What you see is what you get. As far as you know,...   Mar 13 2003, 10:51 PM
mac_bolan00   i'm sad. so very sad. because i haven't warned rag...   Mar 14 2003, 02:03 AM
bbarra   Here's today's (3/13/03) article about RP in the N...   Mar 14 2003, 07:39 AM
benign0   Why? Are you insinuating that Mr. raggster is i...   Mar 14 2003, 02:32 PM
benign0   I read another article that cited the recession-p...   Mar 14 2003, 03:02 PM
bbarra   Benign0, .."last bastion of affordable leisure..?...   Mar 15 2003, 06:51 AM
raggster   why, oh why do i get more brain fart? (by the way...   Mar 15 2003, 07:06 AM
bbarra   Benign0, further more...while your criticisms are ...   Mar 15 2003, 12:29 PM
benign0   I agree with you. Apologies for the misunderstand...   Mar 15 2003, 07:06 PM
benign0   Maybe because you ask for it. We'll see how l...   Mar 15 2003, 07:22 PM
benign0   What "bright side"? Why don't you point our sp...   Mar 15 2003, 07:40 PM
benign0   A N N O U N C E M E N T ! ! Get a load of the la...   Mar 16 2003, 08:22 PM
broadway   i wanna shake my head in disgust just like raggs...   Mar 16 2003, 08:33 PM
raggster   Why Doesn't benign0's Analysis Work? An Initial A...   Mar 18 2003, 01:35 AM
benign0   oops. [ March 18, 2003: Message edited by: benign...   Mar 18 2003, 04:31 PM
benign0   Lovely. I leave it up to the reader to validate...   Mar 18 2003, 04:31 PM
mac_bolan00   oh rag, incorrigible or not, it won't matter to m...   Mar 18 2003, 05:17 PM
raggster   no matter. as it stands, his website contains qu...   Mar 19 2003, 04:54 AM
benign0   Amen to that. ~~~ And is there anything about ...   Mar 19 2003, 02:30 PM
raggster   thank you for verifying my statements. you'v...   Mar 19 2003, 04:44 PM
benign0   That's what I'm working on. I'm still at the top ...   Mar 19 2003, 06:18 PM
raggster   the above reply of benign0 begs the question of wh...   Mar 20 2003, 05:24 PM
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